Episode 22 - College Admissions and Financial Aid - What Fire Families Need to Know with Falone Serna, Dean of Undergraduate Admissions and Outreach with California Lutheran University.
Falone Serna, Dean of Undergraduate Admissions and Outreach with California Lutheran University solves the mystery of getting into and paying for college. Dean Serna provides practical advice on deciding if college is the right path after high school, how to choose a school that's a great fit, what schools look for in students, overcoming tuition sticker shock, and how to ensure the investment in college pays off (hint: going to college is like going to the gym).
Transcript
Peter
Welcome to the Firehouse Roundtable podcast, brought to you by the Ventura Fire Foundation. My name is Peter McKenzie. I'm one of the hosts. I'm retired fire captain with the city of Ventura Fire Department.
Jason
And I'm Jason Kay. I'm an active fire captain also with the Ventura Fire Department.
Peter
And we are. Excited that you are going to spend some time with us at the kitchen table learning about Firehouse issues that we're trying to bring awareness to.
Jason
Thanks for joining us. As we discussed the issues of being a firefighter both on and off duty and how it affects us.
Peter
Let's get right to it. All right. Today we have Fallon Serna on the podcast, who is the Dean of undergraduate admissions at California Lutheran University. Welcome to the show, fallone.
Falone
I'm excited to be here.
Peter
Yeah, we're we're happy to have you and looking forward to this conversation. But before we do that, why don't you give our listeners? A quick bio on. Kind of who you are and what your expertise is and kind of go from there.
Falone
Well, as you mentioned, I currently serve as the Dean of undergraduate admission at California Lutheran University here in Thousand Oaks, CA. I've been in this role for a little bit over a year now, but I've worked in the field of higher education going on 20 years and I've been fortunate to have worked at some really great institutions. Prior to Cal Lutheran, I was the vice president for enrollment management at Whittier College at Whittier, CA. Before that, director of admission at Pepperdine University over in Malibu, and my my kids still give me grief for walking away from that view and that. That, that, that gig before that I was up. In Portland, OR. At Reed College, which is a liberal arts college. It's actually famous for being the place where Steve Jobs dropped out of before he he started Apple. So we're up there for a little while. And then prior to that, I had stops at Harvey Mudd College, which is one of the Claremont Colleges. Out in the Inland Empire and I started my career working at the University of Laverne, which is also out in the Inland Empire Small Private University, very similar to Cal Lutheran. And that's actually where I graduated from. So I I kind of fell into the the field, I was a football meathead. Was a communications major and fortunately somebody gave me a shot and this ended up becoming a career. But outside of higher Ed, I've had some cool jobs. I worked at K Rock, the radio station, for those of us old enough to remember when radio was a thing. I worked at the LA Times for a little bit, so I've had had a had an interesting career path, but I ultimately settled on working in higher Ed when I. Got to Harvey Mudd, and I've been been with the with the field ever since.
Peter
Perfect. So it sounds like you know a thing or two about college admissions, which I think is part of the conversation today. I know that obviously we're our podcast kind of serves the fire service community and. Different stages in life that people go through, one being, you know your kids are getting older and you got to send them off to college and how to finance that. And I know that there's a lot of questions in my mind, and I think in a lot of people's. Mind who aren't from your world of higher education and know all the INS and outs of it is like how are we going to pay for this, I mean? Firefighters in you know they're not destitute in, you know, poverty restriction, but they're also not, you know, where they have, you know, $1,000,000 in the bank waiting to to send it to a college. So, and there's a lot that goes along with that. You hear stories about. Yeah, my kids going to some Ivy League or USC. In school. And they're not paying as much as like, what the what the stated, you know, tuition cost is. And I think there's a lot of mystery wrapped up in that. And I think it maybe it inhibits or limits people's choices and paths when it comes to helping their kids go to college. But that's just to kind of frame the conversation is how we can kind of educate our listeners on how to look at these things. You know what to consider? Tips, tricks, you know, insider information that you might be able to to shorten that learning curve and kind of get people on the path. You know, it should that be the path that they want to go on. So does that kind of frame what we're trying to accomplish.
Falone
Yeah, absolutely. And I, I think I can help provide some insights into that lot. Like you said, it's lots of unpacked and the pathway is it's so different. You know, even if you know, I know a lot of the folks in the department went to college themselves and the process is is so different now. So I I definitely know there's a lot of a lot of, you know, unpacking to do. So I'm. I'm happy to try to. Make it a little bit more clear.
Peter
For everyone. Yeah. Awesome. And I know Jason's been down this path before me. My kids are approaching college age and Jason, I I think I remember having conversations with you about paying for college and what that looked like in financial aid. So feel free to chime in. I'm I'm by no means the expert on this end. Our meeting. I haven't done it before. Know you have. Yeah, the education.
Jason
You get from just getting thrown thrown to the wolves most of the time as a parent is is pretty crazy. I have a connection to CLU. I grew up in Wildwood right down. The block from CLU, when it was still CLC. And me and my friends would ride our bikes on the campus and up to. The cross. And so that's that's pretty cool. To have you you on the show with us, my daughter went to the Masters College. My brother went to Westmont. So those are all kind of similar educational experiences as I think CLU lends itself to. I think it. Would be good to start the conversation where I started as a parent, which is when your kid applies what are kind of the first steps. And what should your expectations be? Specifically when when my daughter Tiffany applied and we had, that was our first child, we had no idea kind of what to expect. I think the first part was. The Counseling office talks to you when you submit an application, and then there's this FAFSA thing and. All of a. Sudden it's the. The price tag is not actually the price of the school, so maybe talk a little bit. About that and and get into that.
Falone
Yeah, well, you know, I I would probably advise families that to start the process, maybe even before the application is submitted because there's so much to try to think through and and unpack. Once you get to the application phase, you know we like to think that students and families have already started. Talking about, OK well. This has to happen for this to work out financially or you know, we're confident that if you get in, you know we're going to be here. So, so some of those conversations I think need to start earlier focusing. On the price? Question and and and issue that one is is you know it's tough because as you said and and as it was alluded to before, what people actually pay is is often different than what this what we call the sticker price and that has to do with the fact. That when you get financial aid or when your kids are in scholarships, that's going to be all on their individual situation. You know there there could be a case where two students wind up with a similar aid package, but really it's going to be dependent on the strength of your students application to that college and university, and then whatever your financial situation. Is and if you do the FAFSA, if you decide not to do it and then once you get all of those options, what do you accept? Are you going to accept student loans? Are you going to decline those as your student going to try to get a job on campus to pay? So there's a lot of things to consider. I you know what I tell students to think about. With respect to cost is, you know, have that honest conversation with your parents. You know, one thing that a lot of families do when they start this process is they say, well, I want my kids to make the decision. It's gotta be their choice. They have to be into it and I'm completely on board with that. I think most of us would agree where we, we, we kind of look down on the families that. Have the really the helicopter parents who are writing the essays for the kids, we definitely don't. That, but when it comes to cost, the parents have to be involved. The financial aid process the parents have to be involved with it. The the the FAFSA that you refer to the form that you did, that's not something that your students can do by themselves. They need your information. They're going to need your tax information and you know, you, the parents, are the ones paying the bills so. That's the part of the the the process where you definitely need to be prepared to be engaged. With and and you know with the general search process that the students can lead that. But I do think it's worth having a conversation with the family, especially if you have children. My my daughter's getting ready to start high school and she's already talking about she doesn't want to be in Thousand Oaks or in California, and so we need to have a conversation as a family. As far as like, well, OK, what does that mean? What's that really going to look like and what are the realities, you know, again, even if you're in a position where you can pay something for? You know it, it stuff adds up. So you got to think about the cost of living in the residence halls or if you're gonna try to get an apartment, like all of these things have to factor in. And so I I think that these conversations should happen before the application because what happens is. Once a student applies, what if they get in right and and if you haven't had cost? If you haven't had conversations about cost and realities and all that, you're really setting yours, you could be setting yourself up for disappointment. If what you are initially offered is just not going to make sense for you and your family, so I think you should come into. That process eyes wide open and I advise families. I think junior year or high schools when you should really start having these conversations about what, what's going to be reality for you and your.
Jason
Family, right. So you said junior year high school. So let's get a timeline going. I'm a junior in high school. What should I be doing? What should? I expect and then through. The next. Two years because I want to go to CLU. What would it? Take and then kind of where do we go?
Falone
So junior year, I I advise students to start their their search process and that really begins with, you know, certainly you want to think about costs. But let's let's take cost aside for a second. The first thing you want to think about is OK, where do you want to be? Do you? Do you think you're going to want to stay close to home or you want to stay in the Western region? Or do you want something completely different? You want to go on the East Coast? You want to go abroad and so that's like a good starting point for the search. Where do you want to live? Then the next thing you want to think about, you know again it there's over, you know, 2004 year colleges and universities out there. Do you think you're going to want to go to a place like UCLA? That's got, you know, 20-30 thousand students. Or do you want to go to a place like Cal Lutheran that's got about 2500 undergraduates? So do you think you're going to do better in a bigger setting, a smaller setting? And both. Have their advantages and. So start looking up colleges. A great place to start. There's a website called College Futures where students can create a profile, put in some of their preferences, and things that they like, and the website will give you some options to look into that might match what you think you're looking at. You know, certainly what you want to study as far as a major that factors into it as well. Niche is another great website NICHE. Some of you may be familiar with using niche. If you're looking for neighborhoods to move in or you know it's it's a popular website. But it's also good for college search, so college futures and niche are two that I think are good starting points, where if you don't know where you want to start, you know, certainly some students already know I want to. Go to USC. I've been wanting to go there since I was a little kid and and that's good. But if you really are starting from scratch, those are a couple of resources and then sign up for their. Our mailing list, you know that in that way, colleges will start communicating with you, telling you about upcoming events, things to look at. They'll send you some information so you can start doing your own research and really kind of narrowing. Down and so as you get through your junior year, I think ultimately the goal should be narrowed down the list of schools that you're looking to apply to. These days, most students I think apply it in the neighborhood of 8 to 12 schools. I think that's a healthy amount. You may hear some crazy stories about families and students applying for over 20. I think that's a bit much because again, what happens if you get admitted to all 20 that you really haven't made any decision you want to try to make this as easy as possible. You know, start narrowing your list down and then you know the next step. And this is really important junior year, especially around spring break time or summer before senior year. Start visiting campuses. That's really a big factor because you can get a lot from schools and certainly with the pandemic and COVID, a lot of us have invested heavily in. Online resources for students to learn about our schools, videos and virtual tours and things like that, but really nothing. Beats the in person experience and going and seeing a campus for yourself, talking to the students there. If you get a chance to connect with faculty. If you're prospective athlete, talking to the coaches and you want to try to get that experience, if you can. And I always tell students to really take advantage of being in California because I mentioned before one of the things you'll have to decide if you want to go to a big school. Or a small school. We're in Southern California. We've got a little bit of everything here, you know, even in our area here, you could go visit. In a place like UC Santa Barbara or Cal State Northridge, that has thousands of students and then you can go visit a Pepperdine or Cal Lutheran, that's got a more intimate setting. And so you can see even if those are not schools that are on your list, you can at least see. OK, this is the kind of. Environment I'm looking for. This is the. Kind of atmosphere I'm looking for. Do I want the big sports? Do I want the small classes? And and that'll start getting you narrowed down to like, you know, a list of schools that you can start working with. And then at that point I mean, sorry, I'm rambling a bit, but you know once once you kind of get down to the list of schools that you're.
Jason
That's that's that's great.
Falone
Looking at then you need to start thinking about OK, when are the application deadlines? When do I need to start working on my application? Most students, I would say, start working on their applications summer of their junior year. That's when you start thinking about the essays you want to submit. Start thinking about who you want to submit letters of or request letters of recommendation from. So, you know, once you have a list of schools, think about the different deadlines because you know if if you apply to the UC's, for example, they're all the same deadline. So if you're applying to UC Santa Barbara, UC San Diego, UCLA, it's the same application. You just dictate which schools get that application. So that's straightforward. But then if you're applying the private schools, if you're looking at. Pepperdine Loyola Marymount, Cal Lutheran we'll all have different deadlines. If you want to apply early if you want. To apply regular. And so however you organize that type of data and deadlines, you know do that for you. If it's a plan, or if I'm a spreadsheet guy. So I put everything on an Excel doc. If that works for you, but try to get organized. I would also say make sure if you don't have one, get an e-mail address. That's professional looking. You know, you, we we don't want, you know, Starfire, 316, you know your your e-mail should have your first and your last name for colleges to use and that you know that you'll check. And this may be an instance where if you know you're gonna be a little overwhelmed because high school's busy, especially during your and your year, you may want to get an e-mail address that. You, you know, you allow one of your parents to have access to to make sure they're checking and see that you're not missing any deadlines or things like that. So it's really about, you know, junior year is about kind of setting the table. Finding the schools that you're really interested in really coming to grips with what you're interested in studying, and then start thinking about a game plan for applying, because especially if you're gonna apply to even 12 schools, it's a lot, you know, and there's different applications. There's a common app, there's you see app. You know, individual schools may have their own applications, and if you're looking for certain. You may have to have that. So you wanna really get organized. And and I just. Waiting until the fall of your senior year is probably not the wisest. If you want to not have a crazy stress that I know your podcast talks a lot about mental health and that type of thing, you know we don't. The college process should not be contributing to a lot of anxiety and stress, and I think just kind of going at it and planning ahead of time will will go a. Long way in helping with that.
Jason
Yeah, I think that's a great suggestion. I think most things in life we do better for organized and. Plan ahead and. And and kind of get ready for what's coming up. I know the college process the application process is a lot, and the more schools you apply to, the more you need to. Right. And you know, the more fees there are? Cuz I think most applications have a fee. Associated with them. So as the Dean. Of admissions, I want to go to CLU. What are you looking for?
Falone
At the core of every institution, we want to make sure that students are positioned to succeed and graduate. You know, we're not just looking for, you know, someone who's going to come in year one and do well. We're looking for future alumni. So we we we're trying. To look for. Attributes and qualities that that give us confidence that the student will will be successful here, graduate and and and you know, go on and do great things. That all starts with academics, of course. And you know when you when you think about academics, it's it's a two-part thing that we look at. First off, is this student prepared for the rigors and the academic program? That exists at our institution specifically, so that's kind of like the bottom line. Candice student past, freshman English, is the student going to get through our curriculum and all of that so that that's the starting point. Then there's the competitiveness. You know, the different schools have different demands and more applications, and all of that. Cal Lutheran is a moderately selective institution. We typically admit around 7075% of our applicants. So we admit the majority and and actually it's funny. The majority of colleges and universities admit more than half of their students out of the. Again, I mentioned 2000 or so four year colleges and. Cities it's less than 200 institutions that admit fewer than 50%, and then when you're talking about like the Ivy League schools or even USC, and these colleges that admit, you know, 10% or fewer of their applicants, we're only talking about 50 schools or so. But those are the institutions that tend to get. A lot of attention because you know there's a demand to go there so but anyhow, but that's the other thing you need to think about if you are going to be applying to an institution that is competitive. That you need to check to see if your academic record is in line with the typical students that they admit for you to even be in the game. For that, so to speak. So because a lot of colleges and universities, you know, we we all ask for essays and letters of recommendations, and sometimes you'll get to interview. But if you're not. In the in the ballpark of like the range of academic statistics with your GPA and if the school requires test scores, your chances of getting in are not great even if you have a sparkling personality, and so that's something that I I think so. So again, so you have to be prepared for the school, but you have to be competitive as well. But beyond that, you know. Going back to what we're looking at, what we're looking for in Cal Luther and you know, as I mentioned, we're a smaller population, about 2526 hundred undergraduates and the majority of our students live on campus. So we value students who are going to be good contributors to a learning environment and community. So we we like to think about. You know, what's the student gonna be like in a lab group or what? Are they gonna be like in the residence halls? Is this someone that our students are gonna want to be a part of because our students are active? You know, we we have very few students here whose existence is just come to school, take classes and go home. Our students are engaged and involved with. It's with athletics clubs, the arts, student government and so we we feel that's a big part of our experience here and so we want to bring in students who are going to contribute to our community in a positive way and be someone that we think will thrive here. And you know, again. To be a great contributor to the community and so we get that from the again, the we require essays, there's letters of recommendation. We try to get as much of A personality fit as we can when we're looking at students, and I think a lot. Schools that are similar to Cal Lutheran in that vein, that you would hear similar things from a Pepperdine and a Loyola Marymount, even like a USC that's a little. Bigger than us?
Peter
I got a question for you. Let's say little Johnny wants to be a school teacher. Does it make sense to try to go to Harvard or an Ivy League school? Or how do you like reconcile? Career choice with college choice and, like, do what? When do those things talk a little bit about? That if you don't mind.
Falone
No, no. Excellent question. And I think it comes to I, I throw out the term a lot the value proposition because right now especially coming out of the pandemic, a lot of people found people took. Different pivots and as far as career. And making money. Me in, you know, even before the pandemic, folks were starting to to question the value of of education because, you know, again, as we know I'm I'm sure you all see what the what the fire department. I know it it benefits in some instances for folks to have college degree, but you don't have to have a degree to do, you know, get into certain careers and trades and you can make a great living. And so, you know, when you think about what you're doing this for and what you're trying to get out of it, I think that's absolutely a fair question and one that I don't know that every institution has done a great job of it, but we we've been put on notice. So I think a lot of us are trying to do our best. To tie what we're doing in our classrooms and in our programs and how that relates to success for them, perish and postgraduates. So what I would say is a great way to do that is look into the programs and ask the questions. What are the alumni doing? What kind of while the student is on campus, what kinds of connections? Do they make what? How are we setting our students up for success? And so part of our thing at Cal Luth? And when we talk with students about what they're looking to do, whether it's going into becoming a teacher or a coach or getting into business with us or or we have a great sports management program or kinesiology, any of these fields, we try to make sure students are aware of not only that the education that they're getting in the classroom. Is that's certainly a big. Part of it. But what else are we offering? What other kind of like real world experiences are we giving them? And so like for example, at Cal Lutheran, all of our students are required to do what we call a real world experience. Typically that comes in the form of an internship or a job shadow, but it could also be a study abroad experience. Anything that. Puts what they're learning in the classroom into practice, and So what I would tell family is if a student is looking at a particular program. Because that's the thing, not believe it or not, most students don't know what. They want to. Do when they're when they're going to college. A lot of them are undecided, but if you do have a student who already knows how I want to be an engineer, or again, I know I'm going to be a coach. Look at the program and find out. OK, what's my experience going to be junior senior year? Are you connected to school districts? Do you get people in the classrooms if for business, what kind of internships do you offer? Do you have career fairs? What companies are recruiting your students? What kind of experiences are? Getting I think those are all fair and valid questions to ask and that's how you can sort of assess the value, you know, certainly going to a place like Harvard or Stanford or USC, you're going to get a bigger kind of name recognition than you are the Cal Lutherans or what. Where I went to school, University of Laverne. But that doesn't mean that some of these smaller. Institutions you know, again, I can tell you first hand at at Cal Lutheran, we've got people working for Fortune 500 companies and big organizations and all of that and so. Some of it you know the name of the institution in the pipeline, that's helpful to a certain extent. But the example I always use is if you're looking to like, take education out of it, if you're looking to get better physically, if you want to become a bodybuilder or get stronger, you can go join the fanciest gym in the world. I get the the nicest 24 hour fitness with all the great equipment and. The classes and all of that, but if you're not putting into work, if you're only going in once a week for an hour, you're not going to look like the Dwayne the Rock Johnson just because you signed up to join this fitness club, you have to put in the work and college is very, very similar. You know, again, you've got a lot of success stories coming out of places like Harvard and Stanford and USC, but you have. This is many people who come out of places like Cal Lutheran, Cal State Channel Islands. You know, these other schools that don't have. Big name, but people took advantage of the resources and opportunities offered there and and you know, they, they they, you know, make great careers. So some of it is the name of the school, but some of it is what you put into it. But it is fair to know whether or not the school is prepared to kind of foster or. Really support whatever your goals are. Again, it's on the flip side. I'd tell you someone's looking at Cal Lutheran and they're dead set on being an. In the air. We don't have an engineering program. I mean you you can become an engineer as like a physics major or a math major graduate. Become a professional engineer, but it's not the same as going to an engineering school, so maybe you aren't the best fit for you for that. So that's where that question comes.
Speaker 4
Hi I'm Austin folk, an engineer with the Ventura City Fire Department. I'm also on the board of the Ventura Fire Foundation. An organization that supports firefighters and their families, the foundation produces this podcast as part of our mission, I worked with the foundation because I was witnessed to the help that it was able to provide to my family. The foundation needs your help. First, please subscribe and rate this podcast on your podcast platform. This helps us get a higher ranking. And more visibility for the show. Second, if you support the podcast and the foundations work, please consider donating. Every dollar helps us support firefighters and their families. There is a link in the show notes, or you can donate through the website at www.venturafirefoundation.org. Thank you for listen.
Peter
Let's talk about money, because I think from our perspective, our listeners, our parents, they're essentially going to be parents and they're concerned about. You know how much student loans their kids are gonna be encumbered with when they come out of college? You know, what's the situation with scholarships and grants? Like I know personally like my concern is how are we gonna pay for all this? I have 3. Kids that are. Approaching ages that you know, maybe going to college, that's the biggest concern in my mind. The most pressing 1. And if you take out the whole, you know, the value proposition conversation out of it and talk about just how are we gonna afford this. What does like? Yeah, I don't know if you can share, but like what does the typical, what is the annual tuition at Cal Lutheran just? For the sake of our conversation.
Falone
So, no. And and I'm happy to break this down and I think I'm probably good because I I gave my history career history as far as all the institutions I've worked at and I've only worked for private institutions. And so we all have heavy price tags. I mean these days in California. Warn you, I don't think you're going to find an institution that's less than $45,000 a year for tuition. And then, if your students are living on campus, that's usually going to be another 10 to $15,000 a year. And so that and that's just direct cost, right? That's not factoring in things like books or other, you know, indirect costs that. The student may have just living, you know? So we're talking heavy price tags here. But you know, we always sell families that. Sticker price should not be the the primary deterrent. Now you know. Be aware you know, if you're looking at a a, a place with a heavy price tag. If you know you're not going to be able to cut a check for $65,000 every year, you know, be honest with hey, in order for us to make this work, it's going to have to the. The cost is going to have to come down to this number and this figure and and I think that's that's that could be realistic depending on your your your situation. The Cal States and Ucc's I can't remember offhand what they cost, but you know the the the public schools are are certainly not as expensive. The UC's aren't quite the deal that they used to be, but I want to say they're around $30,000 a year and the Cal states are going to be even a little less than that. And so being aware of the sticker price. And all that, you know, I, I I tell families the way the way I think of it is and the way I'm probably going to handle it with my own children is, you know, you should have as far as so. Oftentimes, when people think about the college process, when they think about risk, they think about it from an admission standpoint, like, OK, I'm gonna apply to, you know, USC, and they only admit, you know, 15%. So that's a reach school for me, and I'm gonna get some safer places. But I also think you should be thinking of it in terms of financial. So, like, I'm gonna apply to Cal Lutheran, but. Even if I get in, we're only going to be able to go there if we can get our costs down to like $10,000 a year or whatever it is. So so that that's the 1st way to think about it. I guess the confusing part becomes. Though and and this is you know to answer your question. Everyone's cost, ultimately, is different. People in my field don't like to make this comparison, but the best comparison that you can probably make is it's like buying a car, right? You see, whatever the price is on that lot and the difference is you don't really negotiate for for cost of college. In the same way you might do a car. But it's a similar similar thing. You know, two people can walk on a lot, be looking at two cars that cost the same way, same amount, and one person may have paid this and the other person may have paid that based on a variety of factors and. That's similar to. To colleges and universities, and so one of the things that you were going to want to do I mentioned earlier, when you look into and you're doing your research on institutions, you know what majors do they offer, what are the application deadlines? Find out what scholarship opportunities they offer. That's definitely a fair question. So for example, at Cal Lutheran, I can tell you every student. Admitted is automatically considered for a scholarship this year. It ranged from 15,000 all the way up to $32,000 a year. And so again, depending on what you qualify for. Now that's a much different conversation. You know, you see the $49,000 price tag, but if your student qualifies for a $25,000 scholarship. OK, now you know. Now we're talking a little bit. This makes a little bit more sense to me, alright. And then you have the need based financial aid and earlier Jason brought up the FAFSA form. And that that's something that you're going to want to do the that's completely again that's out of the colleges and universities hands. So the FAFSA is a form that basically every institution is going to look at to consider you for federal and state financial aid. It stands for free application for federal student aid. So you, you, you fill it. And it's it's. So I actually gotta say the facts is actually making some major changes this year. There is a call by the administration, the feds to simplify the form. So the old form I think had over 100 questions for you to answer as of January. One that updated form only have 36 questions. And so it would be much simpler to. Fleet and then you have to put your tax information on there. There's a retrieval tool that will be part of the Faf. So that will automatically update your tax return and it goes off of your return from two years prior. So the students who are applying for entry for fall 24, the the financial aid information will be basing. Financial offers on will be from fall from 22 year, so it's it's two years back.
Peter
So gotcha. Let me let me pause, let. Me. Pause you right there. Cuz I wanna just ask Jason a quick question cuz I'm sure he went through the FAFSA thing and you probably are represented. Of you know your average fireman, yeah. Did you get any love from FAFSA? Did did you get some or what? Did that look like so? It's interesting you're bringing. Your personal financial information.
Jason
This up because I can. I could probably talk to to a bunch of what Fallon is saying from a personal experience, having gone through all of this stuff it the first thing is the FAFSA comes and back when I took it or did it, it was a huge packet. Like you said, it was 100 questions, but each question was like give me your last two years of tax returns. So one question is like a day, some of them are. You know, you got to find the stuff and submit it and and do emails, forms and and all this stuff. What we ended up doing was hiring a company to help us with the FAFSA. And they said that that would bring our costs because they had a bunch of the little secret answers that would would bring the cost of the college down. And I'll tell you right now, it was. A complete waste of. My money, I don't know how Fallone feels about those. Companies that that offer that kind of stuff, but we went to a seminar as a family and they basically did the exact same thing, that we would have for a few $1000. They charged us and we didn't get any.
Falone
Benefit out of it I I'm very I was a little nervous on how you're going to answer that question because I always. Listen to what Jason just said. It's so yeah, so continue, but yeah, no, I'm, I. I would walk away from those kinds of services.
Jason
So another thing that we realized when Tiffany went to a private school, very much like CLU, is the sticker price was pretty close, I think to what CLU's was. And it is nowhere even close to that. What you end up paying in the end. So don't look at the sticker price and then. We can't. We can't afford to go to that school. Another huge factor was that those private schools, they guarantee and correct me if I'm wrong with CU fallone, but you're out in four years with a degree where most of the UC's do not say four years, and most of the time you end up doing 5. So you have to calculate on another.
Falone
Five years? Yep.
Jason
Yeah, another base price year on top of that, a lot of times and it it's longer for an education. So it it's a a ton of education. For the parents as well as the the the person getting into the college and I think this discussion hopefully will lend itself to more guys hanging out of the kitchen table, going, who's been through this and and what do I. Have to expect as well.
Peter
I like this. So you had a price tag, call it 50K and say you paid 20 Ki. Don't know if you're open to sharing what that price tag was, but.
Jason
That's fairly close, yeah.
Peter
OK, so how much of that like you didn't get shut down on the FAFSA process because of your your firefighter income or how much of that did they contribute towards?
Jason
I can give you some specifics, but like Fallon is referring to, you do the FAFSA and then the school comes back to you, depending on what your GPA is. And depending on what you can afford and Tiffany had pretty good grades, I think she had like a 3.75. They automatically took six grand off the top after her scholarships and grants and all that stuff. Because you have good grades, they give you more money off. Then Tiffany got a job on. So they directly I think it was even pre tax put that money towards her tuition and took that off of hers. And then personally, what what I did was I had Tiffany and hopefully Flynn will get into some of this, but you get 3 loans when you go to college, you get sub subsidized unsubsidized and private loans. So Tiffany took on the subsidized loans, which you can defer till after college, and even even further without interest most of the time. And then the unsubsidized and the private we took on, which ended up being Tiffany, ended up graduating with what we called basically a car. So when she graduated, it was about the cost of getting a car for her. So she kind of drove a beater and it was worth it to her because we had had the discussions beforehand that instead of getting, you know, one of the nice, cool cars when you're 2023 or 24, you have this college education. And then Steph and I ended up taking on the rest of the loans and ultimately the way we paid that off as we did. Five years of. I don't know if people like this one, but we did five years of our complete tax return. We paid off for school and I stopped giving to my 457 deferred comp for five years and then in five years, we paid our whole school off without basically a huge change in our financial situation at home and we were able to. Take care of that.
Falone
Yeah, it's really great. I mean, gosh, Jason, you said so much and I'm glad that's why I was like having parents who've gone through the process as you, you're reminding me of a lot of, like, I think really critical points. First being Peter, you kept asking about like, OK, what are you getting from FAFSA and all that. So the thing with FAFSA is, you know, kind of up front, you, you, you'll have an idea and. And most of the firefighters especially, we're going to have college age children. You guys all make great livings. You're not going to get a lot of federal and state aid with the FAFSA. Right? Like there. Some great there's there's a great state grant program that the state has, there's Pell Grant and all of that, but that really benefits the lower income and a lot of times the, the, the middle class and upper middle class families get squeezed out a bit. So you you may already be aware that you're not going to get much federal aid. You'll get some loans offered to you. Which I'll talk about loans in the moment, but The thing is, what colleges and universities do with that information. So we have our scholarships, which usually are going to be based heavily on like your students, grades and whatever other achievements they have. So that's. Worship, but a lot of institutions. Cal Lutheran being one of them, will also look at what your FAFSA results are. And we have our own need based grants that we award to. So we do have, you know grants that we award to some middle income families and all of that. And we're we're constantly trying to like come up with ways to make sure we support those. Families as well, because we know they're not going to get a lot of support from the federal government or the state government. So that's something and that and unfortunately and and this is a tricky. Art and tell families there's no way for us to be able to tell you that ahead of time. So that's why it's so key that Jason said, do not let the sticker price scare you. What I tell families is I think the first part you should be aware of money because like I said, you should have some schools in mind that hey, if we don't get a dime, we'll still be able to make this work and you'll have a place to go. College, but for the other schools, you know, you may need to wait and see. I I say first worry about getting admitted to this school because what happens is once you're admitted about a week or two, after then you'll get your financial offer. Then you can make the money decision at that point you can see OK, this is what we're facing. This is what we're looking at. Hey, we'll have to take out this loan here. We may not have to take out loan here. You gotta get a job. You know, that's when you have that conversation in most places. You have until May 1 to decide you'll get your information January, February. So you can make your choice there so. There is that. And then the last thing I can just really quickly talk about the loans, I I, again every family you know we we we offer students loans and we offer the parent plus loan everyone's you know stomach for borrowing that's going to be on you but I just have to say you know unfortunately a lot of what we hear in the media we hear these horror stories and and I don't mean to trivialize. Them about students getting saddled with hundreds and thousands of dollars of. That and what I would tell you is that you know, for the most part, for you know, your your just your regular four year undergraduate experience that's usually not the the students that are taking on the the the debt like that. I mean, again, I've worked at six different private schools at every one, the average indebtedness was about $25,000. After four years, another great point about what Jason says. You do finish in four years at a private school too, which is not only like thinking about paying extra tuition but loss of income. You know, our students are getting to work after four years and they're not waiting till six years. They're not deferring their career start. But The thing is, we have a cap on how much we can let a student borrow. So that's the other thing like first year students can't take out more than $5500 for that first year of college at a private school. It's a little less for the public, so, so just so don't be afraid of loans. Think of it like the way Jason. I love the way you you put that you know, it's like, you know, the first car money, you know. And I think it's a reasonable amount. So those are all great points. And and like you said, if more guys get to talking about their experiences that that's the kind of education that needs to come out, not what some. Slick person is trying to tell you to get you to let them complete their FAFSA.
Peter
For you. What? What? What is what is behind the the media hype about, you know, colleges are the enemy and they're saddling kids with hundreds of thousands of dollars alone. Like, where is that coming from?
Falone
Behind that. Yeah, a lot of it a. Lot of it the for profit schools. Because they don't, they don't. Offered grants and scholarships, and so a lot of the and and honestly, again, it's mostly like going to be like your adult learners or people who are coming back to complete their education and you know nothing against the University of Phoenix's of the world. But it's just a different business. Metal and those are the synergy here. I will say though a lot of it does come from Graduate School. Now that's a completely different discussion because graduate schools don't have, you know, some of them will have, like, your fellowships and things like that to pay. But a lot of people who are going to law school or getting a masters or a doctor to allow them do have to borrow. And so that's where. A lot of that student debt lives with the graduate student. Excuse me, the graduate degrees. And again I I think if you're looking for and I don't work in Granite mission, but when you're looking at those options that is where you do the cost benefit analysis. You know, if you know, you're gonna have to borrow $80,000 to get your medical Med school degree. But you know what your salary is going to be? As a doctor, you know, you got to think of it in that way. That's where a lot of the debt comes from. But on the undergraduate side, you know again, at least at the schools I've been at, you know, we we're we're not saddling students with that much debt. And I would actually tell you, I guess there are some instances where I've seen parents and families really go out and borrow and take out private loans. I don't know that I would advise as great as I think Cal Lutheran is. If someone's gotta borrow, you know, $20,000 a year to go to Cal Lutheran, I might say that you should probably look at another school for a better option. And so hopefully a lot of places are being honest and upfront about that. But it's a tough market right now out of pandemics and maybe folks are not giving. That kind of advice. But I think most financial aid offices and institutions are. Coaching up and and advising students and families to borrow responsibly, I don't think an undergraduate degree is worth going into six figures of debt. I I don't think anywhere, even if you're saying Harvard so.
Peter
Follow up question. So we went to this college fair thing for my oldest daughter and it was mainly a lot of the UC and CSU. Schools and some privates and the the general flavor that I got from the people sitting on the other side of those desks was. And I'm interested in your perspective and this is, you know, a layman's interpretation was that a lot of the admissions were down and a lot of the schools that that she was interested in were basically telling us just apply, you're gonna get in. It's not gonna be a problem. Is that the state of like college admissions or speak to that if you can.
Falone
Yeah, I would say yes. So there, there, there are two things working, you know, certainly again the pandemic had a big impact on. College going on a number of different areas. I'll try to be brief here, but you know, looking at a place like Cal Lutheran, we lost a lot of enrollment coming out of the pandemic because, you know, when people are looking at a place like Cal Lutheran with our price tag, even if you're not paying full sticker, our experience is the in person. Personable, like people aren't looking at Cal Lutheran. Zoom school so you know when we were closed and all that that, that just kind of shut down our enrollment. So a lot of us are looking to kind of rebuild that. You know, we've been fortunate the last couple. Years our class sizes are more back to normal, but we're still kind of building that back up. The other part of it too is the impact that the pandemic had on the students high school experience, a lot of them missed some key moments. They weren't getting the same guidance and advice, and I feel like students have been and I think we're gonna be dealing with this for another couple of years. You know these. Students who missed key moments because of the pandemic, I think they're still trying to figure things out. And you know my, my, my high school colleagues would tell you developmentally, like this last class that just came up. Who's starting high school? You know, these seniors. It's kind of like working with sophomores and juniors who are seniors, you know, so they're, they're, they've been a little slow to develop, so I think. We're kind of going through that and so most institutions are what you call tuition dependent, meaning our that's where we get our revenue from tuition dollars and and you know. Butts and seats part of the classes there. And so when you have a couple of years where you're down and enrollment, you know, the powers that be are going to tell us, hey, you need to bring in as many students as you can. And so, you know, it's not, you know, obviously we'll still continue because again, we're not trying to set students up for failure. You know, you need to have more than a warm body. We get in here, but we're a lot more affirmative in bringing in students because we're. Trying to rebound our enrollment, I mentioned Cal Lutheran is at about 2500 undergrads. We're typically at 2800, and so it takes a while to build that back up. So I would say with the few exceptions, that is the case for a.
Peter
Lot of places, so with the. Laws of supply and demand. Do you see tuition prices coming down to generate more applications or?
Falone
Yeah, if if it weren't for inflation and all of that, maybe. But you know that's the other part of it too. It's it's, you know, tuition is a result of, you know. What does it cost for us to operate? So we have to think about our staff members, you know, they have families, children, retirements, benefits, all of those costs go up. I mean, our energy costs have have have gone up so much for us to, you know, keep the lights on, run the air conditioning and all that. And so unfortunately. I mean in some instances, maybe we'll have some more generous scholarships, but I don't know that a lot of places are going to be lowering sticker price because just the realities of where we're at right now with how much it costs to run business.
Peter
Got you. Interesting conversation for sure. Yeah, I feel like. College has gotten a bad rap in the last handful of years as far as like people? Yeah, go for it, Jason.
Jason
Something I want to bring up that you reminded me of, first of all, to answer your question a. Long time ago. Peter, we ended up getting almost zero probably 0 from the Pell and the state grant. But because we did the FAFSA, the school gave us a bunch of money off. So I just wanted to follow up. I am a huge proponent of to my children and I recommend this if anybody listens to why are you going to college? Are you going for the experience or are you going because the job you want dictates you have to have a bachelor's degree? So my daughter needed obviously a bachelor's degree because she wanted to be a school teacher. And you can't do that. You know, straight out of high school and you you have to have a certificate or a degree to get into that profession. My middle son is. A welder. So I'm not gonna pay for a four. Year school for him and I I don't. And then the next question or the next question to him was, do you want to? Go to college to get that expense. Experience and is that worth it? And why would it be worth it to you? And then my youngest son is is gonna be a firefighter and that's kind of somewhere in between because you have you have experience on on both sides saying you should or you shouldn't do that. So all of my kids and my friends at this point I recommend that they. Especially with. That the financial burden that it becomes, no matter who you are, but especially as firefighters, I love to see the kids, especially the undecided kids, do the JC thing first. So maybe hit on that. What's your take on that? And do you agree or do you think it's family specific or the the experience? How much is? That worth of the first two years also.
Falone
First off, Jason, I gotta say, man, we gotta get you on the payroll, man. Like I, I, I love your your approach. To this it it makes a lot of. You know I'm. I'm a little biased in that. I think regardless of what someone is going to do with their life, I never like getting more education than me is always going to be a positive. I just. I'm a big believer regardless of what you're going to go on to do. Getting a higher Ed degree, oftentimes people like. So my major, my, my undergrad was in broadcast. Communication and so I'm working in higher Ed, so people may come to the conclusion, oh, man, that was just a waste. You're not even doing broadcasting, but absolutely not the things that I learned in the experiences and that actually led to me getting this job, even though I'm not literally behind a radio board. I mean, I'd love to be doing what you guys are doing for the full time learning the podcast. But so no, I think that's that's the right way to go about it. And the community colleges are a great option for a number of reasons. I mean, for some students, that could be the apex. I know like Oxnard College has a great fire Academy, for example. So like I know there's a lot of great options and if you want to go on to transfer to a four year university, it could be a great way to save a little bit of money. Because the the fees go to Community College. But regardless and what? Where I think you're going with is you. Have to have a plan. So sometimes students. They come out of high school and. Like I don't know. What I want to do so I'm not quite ready for college, but I'm just gonna go to JC for a couple of years. And great if you have a plan, but if you're still kind of going there, I don't know what I'm doing floating around. It's going to be a wasted two years, so I would say really get into college when you're ready and you have a plan and for some people that may mean you don't go to college right after you graduate, take a gap year. There's a lot of students who do that. But, but I think once you get into it. You should have a plan because you get again, even if you're talking about. OK, I'm only going to borrow a reasonable amount. That's still money, even if this, like tuition, is cheap, even if it only cost you a few $1000, it's still a few $1000. Like I I think you should be intentional and and really I I never really thought about that. Are you looking for the job or the experience? I mean, yeah. And and think about the do the cost benefit analysis. And it's a great way to look. Look at it and and there's there's multiple pathways to get your degree. So at calu we we usually shoot for about 650 or so new first year students, but then we also bring in about 185 to 200 transfers a year. So. So it's it's that's definitely a great option. We've got great community. California's got the best Community College system too, so. So yeah, so all those are our great things to think about and going good, good pathways just have a plan, know what you're walking into.
Peter
Jason, I'll. I'll. I'll. Be a counterpoint to your point. So we're having this conversation about Emma, right currently, right. She's just finished up her junior year trying to figure out college visits all that. I am a proponent of going away like I want her to go far away cause I want not cause I don't want her around cause I clearly want her around but I want her to have that experience of being kind of on her own living, you know, away from mom and Dad. More responsibility, opportunity to navigate. Social things. I guess it all boils down to what you're placing value on. Obviously that comes at a price for sure, like it's way more expensive than just going to Ventura College. There's nothing wrong with that. I I guess I view that maybe a little bit negatively, but I don't know if that's right or wrong, but I guess just how I'm looking at it.
Jason
And I I love that too. The problem is that I'm so pragmatic about everything, man. That's just my personality. That I'm like.
Speaker
Ohh no you.
Jason
Should have great. Experience go away too, but I'm not sure that. I should pay. For that, yeah. So. That you have that discussion with your.
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jason
Kids on how much each person.
Speaker
And is.
Jason
Is taken on with that stuff.
Peter
Yeah, it is encouraging to hear and I've known this just from our conversations we've had that no one pays ticker price. So that's that's helpful. And if the average person comes out of CLU with 25K and student loan debt, that's reasonable like, that's not gonna. That's not gonna screw you for the next. 25 years. If you come out.
Falone
100%.
Peter
With that. Yeah, so that's that's beneficial. Fallone, what are we missing? What's what's what's key to the conversation that we haven't hit on? We're running out of time. I just want. To make sure we that we're not going over anything.
Falone
Yeah, the the only other piece and I'll try to get it in quick, cause this would be a whole other topic, but I'm I'm I'm assuming a lot of. It's funny. My my son plays. He's a little guy. He's 10. He plays club soccer with Ventura County firefighters as fathers. I think he's captain or something, but your families have kids who are into sports and athletics, and that's another thing. To consider just just really quickly, I would say that it's a a great opportunity for students to get access to colleges and get recruited and that that will open up a whole other world and a whole other. Things. So for you to think about and kick around the big thing that I would just say is don't I mean, unless you're your son or daughter are really that guy or girl there, there are not as many quote UN quote full rides out there that that people they may expect. But even if your kid doesn't get a a full ride, there's still some benefits to being a recruited athlete in the process. That again, I think it could be another thing and you know, for many students that that that'll be a big part. I mean, for me, you know, again, I I went to a small university to play. Sports and I didn't get a athletic scholarship, but I got enough money to make it work and and I could have went to a state school, but they didn't have athletics, so that was the difference between me choosing my private school and not so just another thing to think about athletics. And that's another part of the process you're going to want to start earlier than later. You know, if your kids not getting recruited by the middle of your senior year, it's probably not going to happen. But it's another thing to think about maybe a future topic. You can get someone else talk about athletics, cuz that's a whole other deal. And again, I'm assuming that many of your. Your, your, your colleagues who have kids. They're all in sports and they may be thinking about, you know, playing in college.
Peter
That's what if you had it without like bursting their bubble. But so the chances are pretty low that you're it's gonna open up all the the doors for you and give you a free ride to college or.
Falone
I mean, if you look at it, I, I, I wish I had the I wish I had the, the the statistics on hand, but. It's like even just looking at like like something like football, I forget what it is, but it's like 5% of high school football players end up playing in college and included in that 5% are like the division Threes, the division twos that give the partials. So like it's, it's again, it's not the, it's not always the golden ticket, even if they're good. I mean, a lot of things have to happen right for someone to. Get a full ride scholarship and get that kind of recognition. So I would just say think about it, why do we all play sports as we want the kids to have the good experience learning the value of teamwork, there's so much you get from athletics. I just hopefully the the sole motivation. I mean again, if you have someone who's talented and you see it. Then sure, that could be the motivation. But for most students, that's not what reality is going to be.
Jason
Do you get a better chance at getting more money at a smaller school like like CLU maybe? Or do you get a better chance at getting more money at a bigger school because they have more a bigger program for those smaller Fisher athletics?
Falone
Sure it it, it really depends. Like the the money. So you know for a place like Cal Lutheran, we don't offer athletic scholarships, so there's not necessarily like a a financial benefit, but for some Division Three schools that may be more select like. And I worked at the Claremont Colleges. That's the place that only admits 1520%. You know they support athletics, we have teams to fill, so you know, you may have like that. That'll be a tip to your cap for just getting into the, the the college or university. And then yeah, for the bigger schools, again, for places that do have scholarships, if you're, if you're going for it, you have some opportunity. But even some Division One. So I worked at Pepperdine University, for example. Fantastic women's soccer program, but only a few of those women are on full scholarships there. So like you know, they. So there is some extra money, a lot of them got partials, but it wasn't the the Golden ticket and that's the Division One. They they play the USC. These and Virginias and all of that, so you know again it's just other things to think about. But yeah, that's like I said, it's a whole other, it's a whole other topic.
Jason
Yeah, but how fun to be able to play on those teams even without the money.
Falone
Ohh yeah.
Jason
That's cool.
Falone
Fantastic experience, yeah.
Peter
Fallon, thank you so much for coming on. Very informative, very helpful. Hopefully our listeners get a lot out of it. But yeah, thanks for coming on the show.
Falone
Yep, happy to be on anytime.
Peter
All right. That was a great conversation, Jason. It's super relevant to me as I staring down the barrel of college educations. I remember our conversations when you were going through it, and honestly, I didn't really pay much attention as I am now. So anyway, good info.
Jason
Yeah, I I'm I was really glad to talk to him and it it kind of brought up some points that I've been, you know, when most most people who are who are younger than me don't really care about that stuff. And then all of a sudden, like you're saying, it's really important and. Here it is and. It's a huge amount of money and I remember look. That those those sticker prices and go into, there is no way we're going to do this, so I'm glad to get some of that education out there. I did want to clarify one thing that I said. I told you that I took out some private loans for my daughter and one of the things we realized is some of the Fannie Mae products for the loans actually had a higher interest rate. Than some of the private loans and that's why we ended up doing that. So it could have been a. Fannie Mae type stuff. But they were like at 8 and 9% back when the private loans were like at 4:00 and 5:00. So anyway, that's why we ended up doing that.
Peter
Yeah, yeah, I'm stoked that no one pays sticker price because the stickers are intimidating. But yeah, I think good information will will definitely have all the parents who are coming of age. Hopefully listening to this podcast, and let's see a little bit of housekeeping. We got the stair climb coming up on September 9th. All the info is on the website. Definitely go there and sign up if you're so inclined. What else, Jason?
Jason
Yeah, you could climb on that thing. You could be a sponsor. I think the pipe band's gonna end up playing there, so it should be a really fun day. I'm I'm looking forward to. It I'll be there.
Peter
Well, thanks for another great episode and. Till next time, take care.
